Guardian: Snowden - Bolivian place forced to land in Austria

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p87
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Re: Guardian: Snowden - Bolivian place forced to land in Aus

Post by p87 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:46 am

Latest post of the previous page:

Tatt wrote:You have no right to privacy from the security services, and never had.

...it is exempted. And always has been
Well, that's just silly. Can you provide a single specific reference that clearly supports that assertion? Article 8 of the ECHR certainly does not say that. I don't dispute the fact that stress points can arise between the needs of the state and the rights of the individual, but such instances are ultimately governed by the rule of law, which in this particular example was subverted.

The right to privacy is an inalienable human right, acknowledged in a document recognised as one of the highest expressions of the human conscience of our time - The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. A living document that is recognised as a contract between a government and its people throughout the world. An expression of the values most dear to us, in some ways the UDHR defines what it means to be human. Something of a moral compass.

Ultimately you may be right that privacy (as opposed to the right to privacy) does not actually exist in the modern world de facto. But if true then it is this very acceptance that is the problem and we should be checking our moral compass to find another path, not bending its needle to make it look like we're still going in the right direction.

And so I must concede a point. The right to privacy - like all the other human rights - only 'exists' to the extent that it is acknowldeged and defended. So I suppose for you - and the growing mass of others of a like mind - it really does not exist. And perhaps, in time, for the rest of us it will not exist either. Well done - you win.



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Re: Guardian: Snowden - Bolivian place forced to land in Aus

Post by Tatt » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:50 am

p87 wrote:
Tatt wrote:You have no right to privacy from the security services, and never had.
...it is exempted. And always has been
Well, that's just silly. Can you provide a single specific reference that clearly supports that assertion? Article 8 of the ECHR certainly does not say that.
Well, since you ask. In the UK;
Article 8 of the Human Rights Act 1998 exempts national security agencies from the right to privacy "2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except ... in the interests of national security"

Then there is The Intelligence Services Act 1994 which defines the functions of the Intelligence Service to be exercisable only:
(a) in the interests of national security, with particular reference to the defence and foreign policies of Her Majesty’s Government in the United Kingdom; or
(b) in the interests of the economic well-being of the United Kingdom; or
(c) in support of the prevention or detection of serious crime”.

That is a pretty wide remit to do whatever is necessary for those topics, think about testing that under law.

And also there is The Data Protection Act 1998, Part IV, Section 28 "...all processing of personal data is covered by the act except..."
Section 28 - National security. Any processing for the purpose of safeguarding national security is exempt from all the data protection principles, as well as Part II (subject access rights), Part III (notification), Part V (enforcement), and Section 55 (Unlawful obtaining of personal data).

In the USA:
The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act says ANY data, voice or communication not between two American citizens on American soil can be intercepted without a warrant or reason (that is my summary, the actual text is longer).

... and Section 215 of the USA PATRIOT Act allows the government to secretly request and obtain library records for large numbers of individuals without any reason to believe they are involved in illegal activity, thereby generally extending the provisions of the FISA to American citizens on American soil.


The PRISM program itself was setup under Section 215 in the US and, strongly presumed, what is called a Section 28 Notice in the UK, which is a secret document approved by a the Home Secretary allowing intrusive surveillance under the law.

I do not know the law in other countries well, but I noted the revelation that France has a similar program to PRISM considered much more effective, and would be highly surprised if the Russians, Chinese and every other country in the world did not run similar operations - without the need for it to be legal, of course.

p87 wrote:And so I must concede a point. The right to privacy - like all the other human rights - only 'exists' to the extent that it is acknowldeged and defended. So I suppose for you - and the growing mass of others of a like mind - it really does not exist. And perhaps, in time, for the rest of us it will not exist either. Well done - you win.
If you want real privacy it is up to you to implement it;

Encrypt your emails with PGP
http://www.openpgp.org/

Secure your phone with Silent Circle
https://silentcircle.com/web/silent-phone/

But yeah, I win! :D
It doesn't make me happy though :(

p87
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Re: Guardian: Snowden - Bolivian place forced to land in Aus

Post by p87 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:37 pm

My apologies - let me make that clearer:

<sarcasm>you win</sarcasm>

Whoops - there's another one:

<sarcasm>My apologies</sarcasm>

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Re: Guardian: Snowden - Bolivian place forced to land in Aus

Post by Tatt » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:57 pm

Hey why don't you come along to the VE barbecue on Sunday? We like people who can provide the cut and thrust of a good debate. And sarcasm.

:-)


http://www.vienna-expats.net/community- ... 6/t,18232/

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Re: Guardian: Snowden - Bolivian place forced to land in Aus

Post by p87 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:50 am

A most gracious response to my snarkiness. Thanks, but I can't make it. Maybe another time...

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